hangforum.com - The Archive

Frank... you know what? I'm completely demotivated. And with this letter I know that I would never got a hang.... also Panart play with the feeling of the people (yeah... wrote and send a letter to PANART and then they will piss you off after a year and a hafl).

I'm waiting for a year and a half for what? for nothing? why panart don't do the same orders system made by PANTHEON STEEL? just tell to the world how many hangs they could create in a year and when the list is covered just close the email and do your job.

This is totally insane. Their method to get the orders (or letters) from the people SUCKS, because they don't set a limit of those orders per year.

At this point... if you create something so famous and glorious like a hang what you ask to the people to send you a ORDER/LETTER if you don't have any planification or idea of how many of those instruments you will able to build in a year?

They way to manage the letters totally SUCKS!!!

And yes I';m ANGRY, FRUSTRATED... and also... I'm NOT STUPID... they are RICH!!! lot of money man!!! lot of many owned in the last 4 years...

Bye!

Pantheon's method to sell the Halo is to announce a point in time when you can sent an e-mail to order a Halo. The 250 persons who are the fastest in sending their e-mail will get a Halo. When Pantheon have built all these 250 instruments (nobody knows how long it will take) they will communicate a next date to send e-mails.

PANArt sent an information to all persons who had asked for a Hang but weren't able to get one. In this information they explained how they understand the Hang and asked all addressees to read the information carefully and "If you harmonize with the contents of this letter and you decide to continue with the process of acquiring a Free Integral Hang, then please send us a letter to the address below. You will receive a definite answer before Christmas 2009." The Hang makers know how many Hanghang they can build in a year (in the last four years 400 - 450 Hanghang were built per annum). They chose those whom they will sell a Hang after reading all the letters.

The difference between the method of Pantheon and PANArt is, that a Halo will be sent to those who are the fastest sending an e-mail but PANArt will give a Hang to those who were able to convince them with a letter.

In both cases there will be persons who are frustrated. Also persons who will be unsuccessful although they are "waiting" for a long time while others are successful without "waiting" a long time.

The problem is the demand that is so much higher than the production of the instruments. Neither Pantheon nor PANARt can satisfy the whole demand. Pantheon decided to satisfy those who are the fastest. PANArt decided to satisfy those who are the most suitable in their point of view. This doesn't mean that all those who receive a refusal are not suitable, but if there are for example 600 suitable persons but only 400 Hanghang, 400 persons have to be chosen from the 600.

Is the one or the other method unfair? I think not. In both cases those who received a refusal can think, that with the other method they perhaps would be successful. Not the methods are unfair, life is unfair, mathematic is unfair. Also time is unfair: My grand parents for example never had a chance to play a Hang because they died before the Hang was born. I was a lucky man because I was younger but old enough to decide to buy a Hang in 2005 when it was easier than today.

Ix

Is easy for you to defend PANART when you have a hang in your house.

Otherwise if they give you a hang just for what you wrote on your letter and NOT following the REAL order list... again... that delivery system SUCKS!!! you are not better than me to get a hang just because maybe you wrote a fancy, hippie and mystic letter. For example my father died in May 2008. I wanted a hang not for business, not for make money and profit with the instrument on EBAY, and not just for play in the streets asking for money like a homeless.

I sent my sincerely reasons to the hang makers of why I want to get a hang... I want to play the hang and make a special tribute to my father who's died in terrible conditions (cancer). I don't lie and I don't want to be a miserable man for the hang makers, but I'm serious and honest person, how they could know that just reading a piece of paper?

At this point all stuff regarding the hang creation is a mistery... there's a list of hang orders, but the hang makers just send hangs to SUITABLE persons??? MY GOD!!! this is totally discriminatory and a kind of lottery process method?

Anyways thanks for your message.

Cheers

I think the great misunderstanding is that there was a list of orders. Such a list never existed. There only were letters. In November all letter writers got the same chance.

Perhaps it is really unfair that you receive a refusal. But as I wrote in my first post: It is not the method that produce the unfairness. If you got an appointment another man or woman would be frustrated and would say: Why Massimiliano and not I?

There isn't any method that will be estimated fair by everyone. A strongly chronological list also wouldn't be fair. Is it fair that someone get no Hang only because he is younger than another person? Or got to know about the Hang later than another person? This also is unfair.



I know that I'm privileged owning a Hang for several years. I had less problems to acquire a Hang because I noticed the Hang already in 2004 and decided to buy one in summer 2005. I was one of the last persons who got a Hang via distributors.

My aim isn't to defend PANArt but to explain that it is impossible that PANArt can act in a way that satisfiy everyone. I understand that you are very unhappy and it is a pity for you that you belong to the unlucky who were refused to get a Hang. But if not you there had to be someone else who was the unlucky one. And I understand that I as a Hang owner am not the one who can console you.

Ix

It's an academic detail, but one minor correction: not everyone who wrote a letter got the invitation to write for a FIH. I wrote a letter, and I know it was received since I did get mail back, once, but I did not get that letter. :(

As a result, I did not get this "rejection letter," either, so I hope that a version of it is published at the Hangblog (or here) so people like me can see what it says. I can sympathize with the frustration of getting it, having not even gotten to that "level"...

...but as with the invitation to write for consideration for the FIH, I assume the text makes more clear the perspective and intentions of PANArt, which I am interested in.

Issues of communications strategy aside, I can sympathize with PANArt's position, of having too many people who want Hanghang. :/

Unique as the Hang is, this problem is not unique to it. The new issue of the Economist magazine has an interesting article on contemporary violin makers; those at the top of their craft have waiting lists for their instruments that now extend over their entire anticipated careers. I.e. they will sell as many violins as they can make in their lifetime, and still not satisfy their wait list. Obviously PANArt is in a similar position now (or soon)... there is not easy or painless solution.

One solution that I hope spreads is for other people to be inspired to work on creating similar sound sculpture. They may never be the Stradivarius-level creation like a Hang, but they may do other wonderful things, and help people who cannot get a Hang.

In the long term I hope PANArt does not "burn out" but instead perhaps finds a way to train others to make Hanghang. It seems like there is a tension between the continued evolution of the Hang, and the possibility of training others -- the more nuanced the Hang becomes, the more difficult and time consuming it would be to train even a talented and patient apprentice to make one. There are after all only two Hang makers.

I played my second-gen Hang today for a few moments with a new thought in my head, that my hope of someday getting a modern Hang will now, I think, never come true.

That is a difficult thought, and the beauty of my current Hang, imperfect as it, made it all the more difficult. (But I am grateful to have this Hang -- of course!).

A sad day, perhaps. But perhaps also one that was inevitable.

What a long and very strange year for Hang-lovers!

I hope that 2010 brings us all lighter hearts and plenty of light.

Best wishes for all!

aaron

Aaron... I understand your point, but think about this... If PANART don't teach to other persons (future) about how to make or re-tune the hang... how you will keep your hang on tune? sending the hang to PANTHEON STEEL? to BELLART? or to any other steelpan maker?

That's my point... I think they are saying to the world "there just two hang makers and would be impossible to teach our art for the new generations"... if that is true the hang will die soon as an instrument.
Do you know how old are Felix and Sabina? they are not teenagers... so which would be the future for an incredible instrument if Felix or Sabina will die in terrible circumstances (and accident, or any other bad situation), so the come famous making this instrument and at the same time they want to die with the instrument? if they die... the hang production and retuning will die too?

That Panart point of view make me sad. If other violin luthiers could teach their art to new generations, why PANART don't do the same?... because they are mystic persons? they are aliens from another world? they maybe don't want to teach how to win 480.000 euros in a year?

400 hangs x 1200 euros = 480.000 euros

With that money amount you could also think about to build a special school of hang makers, or hang foundation.

I also can be mystical and hippie if I gain 480,000 Euros per year. So Panart must stop to talk bullshit and demonstrate to the world that they really want to preserve the hang for the next generations.

I think Aaron made a good point saying:



We have to take in consideration that the Hang is really new - art in progress, not an old instrument with centuries of experiences of thousands of luthiers.

Ix

Hallo,

@Massimiliano.

I understand your frustation. It is not easy for Panart, if they must tell people that they cant make a Hang for them.
I dont understand why you reproach Panart that they are rich. What has this to do with the situation? Nothing!
Do you know Felix and Sabina personally? Why you could say, that they dont care about the future of the Hang?
It is not easy to find a person with good qualifications and! with a similar philosophy. Panart tryed to teach persons to build Hanghang in the foretime. They failed.
You must find a person with a lot of experience in tuning steel. Not much in the world. The next point is to find a person who is on a similar "wavelenght" with Felix and Sabina. You cant work together on art with people, if they are not share your philosophy.
I hope Panart find some day people who are able to learn Hang making in a good vibe with Felix and Sabina.
The next point is your example how many money Panart earn. I think it is not your or my problem. But I understand what you want to say and why you post this. So, I must say that you totally failed in mathematics.

You wrote 400 Hang x 1200 Euro = 480000 Euro. Yes, this is right.
But it is only the business volume and not what they earn.

- Taxes (a lot of)
- rental costs for workshop
- rental costs for "Hangnest". A place where visitors could sleep
- Insurence for health
- material for the Hanghang
- tools
- food and drink for a lot of visitors
- money for the time if they are not able to make Hanghang (pension)
- research and analysis charges for scientists
- ...
- ... and so on and on.

After that they must share the benefit. They are not a couple with one cashpoint.
What is with all the years where Panart earn not much money?

Again. I wrote this only, because you start a totally wrong discussion.
To tell Panart they are behind the money from the people is stupid.
It is easy to see, that they dont follow the market rules.
If they want, they can earn much more money.
The new "free integral Hang" has the same price as the last integral Hang.
It would be easy for Panart to find 400 people every year who can pay much more. They dont do this. So, please think about what I wrote.

Greetings
Frank

Frank is simple...

Who will retune your hang in the future?

I don't need to know how Felix and Sabina are in person, becasue they way to go and how they made their business is sufficient for me to understand the following things:

1) They have success and they now don't know how to manage that success.
2) They got a lot of money even if they have lot of charges in a year... please don't think that I'm stupid man... 480.000 euros in a year??? pfff too much money to spend.
3) They are slaves from their creation and some day when these two guys will flame because the demand is too hard for their work, they will QUIT... at that point again I want that you tell me the answer for the big question: WHO WILL RETUNE THE HANG? WHO WILL RETUNE YOUR HANG?

Pantheon steel? Bell Art? a steelpan maker in Trinidad & Tobago? . So they create something that in my personal opinion is now out of control. Why they don't teach Pantheon steel how to make a hang? or why they don't teach Bellart how to improve the bell? or make a HANG community between the three companies? and complete more orders around the world?

Finally I assume what I want regarding the Felix and Sabina personality... WHY?... because for me, their rules are not 100% CLEAR... Oh yes wrote a letter send it to PANART... and then what?? I want to know WHEN my friend... WHEN I WOULD GET A HANG? in which position I'm in the orders list (now I think that list don't exist). They just dispatch hangs to SUITABLE persons? depending of what you worte on your letter? pfff what a kind of discrimination. Save this post for the future... because this instrument will not survive for the next 30 years if they don't do SOMETHING in order to preserve the hang after their life. That's the point, listen I prefer don't get a hang if my child VALERIA could get one in the next 20 years. I prefer to sacrifice myself and don't get a hang now, but I really want to see the PANART EFFORTS to preserve the hang for my child generation.

Maybe I'm wrong in some of the facts that I'm posting here, but I can't go to Bern without an appointment just to confirm how great persons are Felix and Sabina. There's something called INTERNET, and OFFICIAL WEB PAGE... to communicate with the people.... if they don't have time to do it... simple... make a staff of one or two persons that communicate the PANART feeling, messages and evolution about the hang, and demonstrate to the world that you really want to preserve your creation. Remember my question Frank... who will retune your hang or build one for your child (if you decide to have one) in the future?

Thanks!