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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 8:23 am


Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 3:36 pm
Posts: 78
Location: Barcelona
@frazzledfozzle ... that's the issue... There's not a HANG (same high quality) instrument substitute... just imitators.

Cheers!

Massimiliano


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:02 am

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Joined: Thu Apr 02, 2009 10:30 am
Posts: 105
Location: uk
frazzledfozzle wrote:
Hi Michael,
Thanks very much for your opinions on some of the instruments you played at Hangout, would I be right in thinking that in your opinion for those that can't have a Hang the Halo would be next best thing?
Obviously bearing in mind that the Hang and the Halo are 2 different animals :)
Is the Halo a reasonable substitute?

Cheers
frazz


in terms of sound alone i think-


massimiliano is right, in the sense that there is NO creation on this planet that matches the Panart hang sound..... -so if you are touched by the hang sound then the halo may not ever offer you the same emotions. ...BUT the sound of the new Halos are immense. many Hangplayers that were initially negative about the halo have changed their opinions drastically!.. the rich deep tones can really warm ones soul! there is some residual 'tank like' sound to the metal but, now that the underside of the vessel has had its form modified, it is perfectly balanced and pleasing to the ear. the halo is made from 1.4mm spun steel which will last a very very long time...and will mature favourably with age. it is a very expressive surface to interact with. if compared with a Bells then a Halo is way more for your money. (and your soul).


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 10:15 am

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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:13 am
Posts: 884
Location: Germany
Hallo,

michael colley wrote:
before i do i must respond to funkys 'dig' at hangout uk not being a place that is 'quiet' enough to hear the hang..... how wrong you are sir!


I dont made any comments about this topic in my postings. I have said, that you need a quiete place. Where I said, that you cant find such a place at the Hangout?
..... how wrong you are sir!

By the way. You are right. My english is not the best. But I think it is good enough to explain my! opinions. Maybe sometimes a little bit direct and not "sugar-coated" .


michael colley wrote:
one favourable aspect to this bells construction for me is the MASSIVE bass helmholtz that can be generated when striking and partially covering the underside hole (gu?)


You could have this effect much cheaper and maybe better on Udu Drum.

michael colley wrote:
also I had a bellart bells made for me when my 'number' on the list came up - it was an olympos scale - when i heard the video sample of this instrument i decided not to buy it due to the 'sustain issues'


What do you mean exact with "sustain issues"? Do you speak about the low dynamic on the Bells?


michael colley wrote:
- i communicated with luis (who all my friends that met him say he is a really nice man)


There I have a question. I know a few people who visit Luis. Nobody from this people has seen a workshop, where Luis made the Bells.
If you visit Panart you could see the workshop and if you ask Felix or Sabina, they will show you how they tune a Hang and some other aspects from their work. The doors are open.
Has anybody seen Luis workshop?


michael colley wrote:
... but this issue remains - has luis broken any laws in his country by making these bells? if so he should be accountable for that - if not then he should be encouraged to improve!


Yes. I think he has broken laws. The design from the Hang is protected. Also in Spain and many many other areas on the world.
Luis know that. The Bells look so exact like a first generation Hang, that you must look twice if you want to know if this is a Hang or a Bells.

The Bells is not inspired by the Hang it is simple a cheap imitation or forgery!


The Halo is optical very different from the Hang. Not the same problem as with Luis Bells.
Personally I dont like the "Tanksound", but this is a matter of taste.

The concept from Halo seems very different from the Hang concept.
The Hang is optimized for the human anatomy. The metall is strong enough for a very high dynamic, but not so strong that you feel pain if you play it.
The Hang fit on the players lap. And it is importand for the sound of the Hang. The Hang awakened if the GU and the DING are united to an harmonious whole. You must change the angle of the legs to find this point.
On a stand the Hang work not well. It is an instrument for the human.

The Halo is so big and heavy. On a lot of youtube videos I see players who has trouble to balance the Halo on their lap. And this are not very small people. I think with short legs it is not possible.
Pantheon sell Halo stands on their website and so I think the concept on the Halo is another. You dont need the lap to awake the sound.

The Hang is a globe. The sound radiation is spherically/globular. The Hangplayer and the Hang merge. The Hangplayer is inside the sound, he is part of the sound and he could feel the strong power and energy of the sound.


Frank

_________________
The hang brings back what we lost: we are touched by an unknown call (Felix Rohner - Panart).


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:27 pm


Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:36 pm
Posts: 32
Hi Funky
I'ts interesting that you should say "

If you visit Panart you could see the workshop and if you ask Felix or Sabina, they will show you how they tune a Hang and some other aspects from their work. The doors are open.
Has anybody seen Luis workshop"

I've seen many many posts here saying dont bother to turn up at the hanghouse to see Felix and Sabina because they wont open the doors to you but now you say the "doors are open"?

Which is it open or shut?

Ta much
frazz


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 12:35 pm

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Joined: Mon Mar 30, 2009 8:13 am
Posts: 884
Location: Germany
frazzledfozzle wrote:
I've seen many many posts here saying dont bother to turn up at the hanghouse to see Felix and Sabina because they wont open the doors to you but now you say the "doors are open"?

Which is it open or shut?

Ta much
frazz


Hallo Frazz,

yes, you are right. A little bit unclear expressed, from me. Thank you.

The doors are open for the people who are invited to visit Panart. It is not possible without an appointment to visit Panart.
If you are invited you could see the workshop from Panart, where they make the Hang.

Greetings
Frank

_________________
The hang brings back what we lost: we are touched by an unknown call (Felix Rohner - Panart).


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Sep 25, 2010 1:17 pm


Joined: Mon Feb 01, 2010 9:36 pm
Posts: 32
Frank,
After reading your post again I get it now :)

frazz


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sun Sep 26, 2010 12:45 pm

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Joined: Sun Mar 29, 2009 1:36 pm
Posts: 46
frazzledfozzle and Massimilano, your discussion went extremely off topic. Therefor I decided to split this topic. Your private discussion on your personal issues is now located at viewtopic.php?f=17&t=861

Please continue your discussion in the new place.

If you want I also can delete the off topic posts. Send me a private message if you prefer deletion.

Ix Mod


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sat Oct 09, 2010 9:07 pm


Joined: Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:24 pm
Posts: 8
2 Frank: i have seen Luises workshop, beyond that i have witnessed how he fine tuned the Bells i got from him, and he has build one instrument during the time i have stayed at his place. Luis work alone that is true. From his words BElls is different from Hang: it is his investigation(that is his words) - he tries different materials, different nitridings(temps, time, cooling time). As he told me he have changed the shape to more bowl like(deeper), because he didnt like the sound when he took mesures from the hang, i believe this is because hang is sunk a little bit deeper during tuning process, and has a stronger "skeleton" and i believe Bells is not made in that way.

I dont like everything that concerns Bells instrument(logo design similar to panart, sound quality compared to the hang, marketing policy), but tell me guys, thoese of you who judge Luis: WHAT DO YOU DO IN LIFE? Lets open the curtain for others to know and judge if you do it right or wrong, will ya?


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 4:10 am

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Joined: Sun Apr 05, 2009 2:27 pm
Posts: 47
Location: Marysville, Australia
Hello everyone!

@tanzmeister/Victor:

It's new to me that you have seen Luis' workshop as well as seeing him tune. I'd have bet that you didn't tell me this when we met in spring. Then again, I can't remember exactly since I was tired at the time and russian beer was good. So, nevermind.

Luis „told you things“. Have you verified them? For example the fact that Luis changed the shape of his shells?
Simply measure out the object, please. It is to the dot exactly the same like a Hang shell. Differences are (if at all) within less than 2mm.

On the technicality of „different materials and nitriding“:
Right, so how many options are there? There is a multitude of different tones coming out of JUST ONE kind of material, for example ordinary, cheap and ever available mild steel. Depending on tuning techniques, architectural structure of the notes as well as scales and different pitches, the sound of an object can be adjusted significantly.
And Luis is trying out different things all along? Sorry Victor, you got to be kidding me.

That sounds to me like:
1. Either Luis doesn't have a clue what he is doing. Maybe worth for him to start from scratch and educate himself building Steelpans and exploring the possibilities of JUST ONE material.
2. Luis is deceiving the people interested to buy his object. I mean, he tells someone that he IS trying out new materials, he tells someone else that he is WAITING to get a new batch of steel, and so on.

To me, that looks like great entertainment and it seems to get better every week...

To answer your valid but off topic question: I am currently building instruments for bushfire traumatised communities in Australia. The steelband brings joy back into their lifes, they get together as a group and enjoy the progress they are achieving both socially and musically. Good job.

What do you do in life?

Greetings
we.


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 5:37 am


Joined: Fri Sep 03, 2010 4:14 am
Posts: 11
@ Werner/ Don't know your name

"BElls is thinner than Hang, and sounds dull" is your point, Oh, wait, NO. I was wrong.

Your point is "Luis is NOT TUNNER, He is a CHEATER" he used the mild steel because it's easy(fast) to "knock"(Of cause Luis can't really tune anything). He does what he did and says what he said just only one intention----To cheat people for a ridiculous high price. The most terrible of his sins is that to imitate whole aspect of Hang.

Say no more, We got it.

Don't be 自以为是

Greetings

Trans / Tang Yan(I didn't have to add my name, I'm no body)


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 Post subject: Re: The imitations of the Hang
PostPosted: Sun Oct 17, 2010 10:57 am


Joined: Mon Sep 06, 2010 8:30 pm
Posts: 85
Werner, yes i have seen and played many variations of Bells instrument in Luises workshop: thick, heavy ones, light ones, soft nitrided and hard nitrided ones. I have also seen his prototypes. I have tuned the Bells i got from him because my friend ruined the tuning by droping it: and i must say - it is very hard or under a very big pressure, the. for example: when i have tuned my hang it is very simple to leave a dent on the surface, but it is nearly imposible to do that on the bellls instrument beacuse it is very "springy", yes it lighter and i believe it is not free of external stresses and that is the reason it does'nt apriciate big load. My first prorotypes were made of 0.9mm sheet steеl, wich i believe after sinking went to 0.7 or 0.8mm, But i can hit my instrument pretty hard without any distortion, beacause i free the membrane from external pressure.

I am not a Bells fan, just want to clear some things out(to much speculation around here)

I know what you do in life Werner, i am not asking you - i am asking people who i believe just don't have anything to do in life except discussing aspects of life of other people.
As you know, i am working with the steel, i am exploring the possibilities of tuning and materials, i have a passion for it, this is my life now. i am happy and people around me are aslo happy about this.


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